Curse

Paul Dawg · Jul 04, 2009, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Basically I agree with everything you're saying in this thread, but I have two comments about this section.

1. Why does the AP caller have to be an assassin? Wouldn't N/A (or whatever) be fine?

2. The problem with marrying Discordway with one set of heroes and Sabway with another is that you'll have two full-time MM's, making yourself extremely corpse-dependent, and that won't be so efficient in all zones. If I were putting together a second set of heroes for a Discordway team (aside from another Discord set), I'd want a primary monk to take a stronger version of dwayna's sorrow, and probably also a Rt spirit spammer in there somewhere too, and then probably a para with skills like blazing finale and purifying finale if your second human is a warrior yelling SY. In other words, I'd completely scrap Sabway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

I'll solve your query really easily, especially so because you can run 8 men in a party (or women if you want to be an ass about it).

Have an Assassin run AP caller with Discordway fully focused on spike (it works best with Assassin sheerly because of the utility of having an open secondary proffession) and have a Dragon Slash SY Warrior team up with him and run Sabway fully focused on physical support. You then get the very best of both worlds.

Watch stuff explode.

Tenebrae · Jul 04, 2009, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Hopefully all the people that are arguing for the insane speed of Disco kills are all microing Disco, right?
You do know that without doing that a lot of the things said here are just a nice theory?

Nah they are just making that up , they are counting bloody lots of damage in 1.5 sec wich is just a lie , the norn shout is 80 dmg ( at max rank , otherwise is LOWER ) and Evas take about 4 secs to do the entire chain ( no IAS pal , just normal attack speed ) but hey upier, dont remind them , they are still living in a Urs ... i mean Discordway Dream.

@ Tyrael : Ofc at places with lack of corpses those builds only have the Discord spike to do damage but meanwhile those 3 ... 7 secs to kill a 26... 30 lvl foe, if 1 or 2 of the rest get near your team without meat minions .... god bless PS .

Super Igor · Jul 04, 2009, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

1. Why does the AP caller have to be an assassin? Wouldn't N/A (or whatever) be fine?

Doesn't have to be, can be any profession so N/A is fine too.

Quote:

2. The problem with marrying Discordway with one set of heroes and Sabway with another is that you'll have two full-time MM's, making yourself extremely corpse-dependent, and that won't be so efficient in all zones. If I were putting together a second set of heroes for a Discordway team (aside from another Discord set), I'd want a primary monk to take a stronger version of dwayna's sorrow, and probably also a Rt spirit spammer in there somewhere too, and then probably a para with skills like blazing finale and purifying finale if your second human is a warrior yelling SY. In other words, I'd completely scrap Sabway.

Drop minions on Discord, or better give Shambling Horrors to a pair of Discord heroes so they act like backup MM's.

Improvavel · Jul 04, 2009, 09:39 AM // 09:39

And AP+FH+YMLaD+EVAS is 35 energy and even a 16 rank AP will return 21 energy. i really doubt you can spam the combo every 2 secs. Lets avoid talking about the supposed support skills an AP caller should be spamming too.

And this is for an Assassin - and the assassin can slot nice mesmer signets to get the rest of the energy. What about a warrior or a ranger?

I guess if you are stuck with "AP is needed", which I demonstrated that it isn't since there are other options, its no surprise you say that pvx discordway won't work on physicals like the warrior.

There is no point to run sabway when if you change the elites of sabs to discord and modify attribute spread, discord is faster.

The fastest discord with 3 heroes is N/A. The curious thing is that he only needs 2 discord heroes and slots in those useless curses too. And he still is the fastest. I generally use a Para or a Ranger on the last slot in that case.

Super Igor · Jul 04, 2009, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

And AP+FH+YMLaD+EVAS is 35 energy and even a 16 rank AP will return 21 energy. i really doubt you can spam the combo every 2 secs. Lets avoid talking about the supposed support skills an AP caller should be spamming too.

And this is for an Assassin - and the assassin can slot nice mesmer signets to get the rest of the energy. What about a warrior or a ranger?

I guess if you are stuck with "AP is needed", which I demonstrated that it isn't since there are other options, its no surprise you say that pvx discordway won't work on physicals like the warrior.

There is no point to run sabway when if you change the elites of sabs to discord and modify attribute spread, discord is faster.

The fastest discord with 3 heroes is N/A. The curious thing is that he only needs 2 discord heroes and slots in those useless curses too. And he still is the fastest. I generally use a Para or a Ranger on the last slot in that case.

I will have ebergy problems after 3 full casts of the chain, but then the mob is dead.

Also, wtf mesmer signets, GoLE is the way to go and Ele secondary will give you nice blocks and buckup hexes/condis, even para secondary is better.
Like I said, you dont know how to play Discord.

Your Sabway with Discord idea is trash, its not faster, because it does neither job well.
Just run a proper Sab if you dont want to run proper Discord.

AP caller is by far superior to other callers. More burst damage, loads of utility, kd ect.

Improvavel · Jul 04, 2009, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

I will have ebergy problems after 3 full casts of the chain, but then the mob is dead.

Also, wtf mesmer signets, GoLE is the way to go and Ele secondary will give you nice blocks and buckup hexes/condis, even para secondary is better.
Like I said, you dont know how to play Discord.

Your Sabway with Discord idea is trash, its not faster, because it does neither job well.
Just run a proper Sab if you dont want to run proper Discord.

AP caller is by far superior to other callers. More burst damage, loads of utility, kd ect.

Yes because a warrior can use Gole, for example. And because gole reduces the cost of the shouts! And because gole wont increase the casting time of your chain.

No, you just have your mind set and never tried anything else.

Til you tried both you are just theoricrafting and coming with twisted ideal scenarios.

Not only does the present build works, and works for any physical character, but if you know what you are doing with a physical character, it is as fast if not faster the discordway with AP caller.

You just never tried and so you don't know. Your only answer is that "you don't know how to play discord", regardless of even knowing what is my killing speed.

I guess it is you that don't know how to play physical professions, since you are clearly convinced that, for example, an AP caller sin will do more damage than a MS/DB one.

And that is why people start saying physical characters will have problems fulfilling the discord requisites, because the only things they know that can cause conditions and hexes are AP, YMLAD and Asuran Scan.

More, you main critic to the build is that it doesn't have an AP caller, even though it doesn't need one, because basically you want a character that does what an AP caller does and play like. The characters that play like AP callers are AP callers.

This is about playing different roles and still reap the rewards of discord in heroes (more because the AI sucks than because the intrinsic power of discord).

But you have never tried and never will because it doesn't have an AP caller.

So your contributions to this are devoid of any importance because, 1) you aren't pointing short comes of the hero builds presented nor the player build; 2) you have no field experience of it, which is quite different from your ideal theoricrafting world, and 3) you only talk about the ASSASSIN AP CALLER, which is the best of the physical professions at being the caster and aren't capable of presenting a solution that works better for physical professions.

If Sabs worked better for a physical profession, you wouldn't run your assassin as an AP caller, now would you?

MercenaryKnight · Jul 04, 2009, 10:39 AM // 10:39

For the people saying you don't gain back enough energy with an ap caller. You don't always have to cast finish him and ebon vanguard sin (if you don't replace that with pain inverter anyway). For me I run a paragon with ap, ymlad, pain inverter and finish him. My usual casts are ap and ymlad if monster is going to die easily I will then cast pain inverter on a fresh target that will pretty much kill themself as heroes spike down first target.

You can manage energy quite easily and sustain damage. But no discordway does not rely on a caller. The fact is, if you make discordway self reliant on hexes/ conditions they will spend more time away from discord inorder to prep targets. The more time it takes for them to set up naturally with ai the less effective the spiking is.

The ap caller is used to make spiking quick and effortless for their ai. Not having one lowers the effectiveness of the build because of the speed of them setting up sucks generally.

Improvavel · Jul 04, 2009, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

For the people saying you don't gain back enough energy with an ap caller. You don't always have to cast finish him and ebon vanguard sin (if you don't replace that with pain inverter anyway).

Doesn't this means you are dealing less damage?

Aren't people saying that AP caller SIn, for example, deals more damage than a MS/DB sin, and that is why is ridiculous changing a caller for a normal sin?

Wouldn't a paragon that chucks spears be dealing more damage as he won't run dry on energy/adrenaline?

Quote:

For me I run a paragon with ap, ymlad, pain inverter and finish him. My usual casts are ap and ymlad if monster is going to die easily I will then cast pain inverter on a fresh target that will pretty much kill themself as heroes spike down first target.

So you run no other hexes/condtions on your heroes? Because I can easilt apply a condition with a para and hexes aren't hard either, for example with asuran scan and anthem of weariness/find their weakness.

Quote:

You can manage energy quite easily and sustain damage. But no discordway does not rely on a caller. The fact is, if you make discordway self reliant on hexes/ conditions they will spend more time away from discord inorder to prep targets. The more time it takes for them to set up naturally with ai the less effective the spiking is.

This is obious false. If the discord heroes only needed to cast discord and the best use of their time was discord all time, the rest of their slots would be empty.

They aren't. PvX discordway as for example enfeebling blood and shadow of fear there. Putrid bile too.

So, no, the target preparation is less complicated and time consuming that you guys are trying to make and the cast of skills like enfeebling blood and shadow of fear or aegis are very welcomed.

Quote:

The ap caller is used to make spiking quick and effortless for their ai. Not having one lowers the effectiveness of the build because of the speed of them setting up sucks generally.

Because a physical can't easily cause deep wound or cast asuran scan or have withering aura and have all or half of the conditions met?

Still theoricrafting that doesn't happen in a real battle.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Discordway <--- Do I see 2 second casting time skills? Do I see conditions and hexes on the heroes? Wont they raise minions to refresh death ones mid battle? Wont those things make the heroes cast less discords?

Or maybe the discord team actually needs to setup some defense during battle and stop casting discord?

Or are your discord heroes all immune to enemy damage? Do you run their other skills disabled most of the time, because the minion wall is all you need, and only enable them if something exceptional happens?

Unreal Havoc · Jul 04, 2009, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

Basically I agree with everything you're saying in this thread, but I have two comments about this section.

1. Why does the AP caller have to be an assassin? Wouldn't N/A (or whatever) be fine?

N/A is probably better energy management wise and support wise.

What makes the Assassin strong is the free choice of secondary proffession. It's not the best class to use in Discordway, but it's definitely the best physical class to use in Discordway because of it's caster themed alignment.

Quote:

2. The problem with marrying Discordway with one set of heroes and Sabway with another is that you'll have two full-time MM's, making yourself extremely corpse-dependent, and that won't be so efficient in all zones. If I were putting together a second set of heroes for a Discordway team (aside from another Discord set), I'd want a primary monk to take a stronger version of dwayna's sorrow, and probably also a Rt spirit spammer in there somewhere too, and then probably a para with skills like blazing finale and purifying finale if your second human is a warrior yelling SY. In other words, I'd completely scrap Sabway.

The thing with these builds is that they work on corpses to manage energy (Soul Reaping) and healing (Dwaynas Sorrow). Running two MMs is fine in most areas as long as you drop minions on the other Necros.

One thing you could do with your heroes is have one MM run full protection support and have the other run full healing support. That way attributes aren't as gimped for either Protective Spirit and Aegis, or Dwaynas Sorrow and whatever other heals you might bring.

However Discordway can work just aswell regardless of what you run alongside it. Motivation Paragons work very nicely with them (extra healing and energy from chants and shouts), aswell as Elementalists with Wards (hey lets slow them right down and provide some blocking too so I can drop Aegis).
Spirit Spammers have proven efficient just lately with the new buff though it's probably better run on a hero as they can place them better.

It's always about experiemnting and finding what works best for the area ahead of you. Discordway is just a general build, for something more specific you should dig a little deeper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

If Sabs worked better for a physical profession, you wouldn't run your assassin as an AP caller, now would you?

Sabway offers better support for a physical character, but as an Assassin why play Sabway when I can run an AP caller efficiently with my Assassin and blow stuff up even better? I don't need sustained damage in my spike build because I know how to operate my spike build in some of the most dire circumstances. I've cleared FoW, cleared the entire Southern Shiverpeaks and pretty much most of EotN on HM with Discordway and an AP caller.

People know that you can run physicals in Discordway, people know that you can use the Necros to trigger Discord. What most people are telling you is that it is less efficient to do so. I've already told you myself that I have played both ways, and which I found more efficient. Even a Discordway hater has said himself that AP calling is more efficient at providing the spike assistance and prime for Discord.

You're just theorycrafting that an Assassin cant offer any support using his utility slots. You don't actually know this, and I can tell you have never played as an Assassin AP caller. Why don't you actually try it before even continuing this discussion.

I know this because I play an Assassin and often use skills in my utility slots to offer support to my team when needed. For the most part those skills aren't needed because stuff blows up way too quickly, but they're there anyway for when I do need them. Several secondary proffessions offer good energy management for an Assassin AP Caller, making an Assassin a good choice to use as an AP caller. You're also lacking taking +4 energy regeneration, high energy sets, and outside energy management, into account.

The argument is pointless and is going nowhere because while you sit here and complain that people aren't listening to what you say, you're not really listening to what others say in your own blind faith that physicals can provide a ranged spike and support better than an AP caller can.

The fact that you're judging your entire arguement on a PvXWiki build that is actually quite subpar compared to alot of good player versions throws your whole debate into dispute anyway. As I've told you before, the builds strength is it's versatility, if all you run is that PvX version and never change it or adapt it then you're a god aweful player.

Tyla · Jul 04, 2009, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by majikmajikmajik

All Discord NEEDS is a condition and a Hex, to think it needs AP caller is a joke. AP just exploits the fast killing power of discord team while being able to spam powerful PVE skills with ease.

Exactly. On my Ranger, I use a Discord setup, because it saves me the time of putting together a build that is effective while allowing my heroes to be incredibly versatile. The short recharge time, coupled with a long lasting AoE hex (personally, Shadow of Fear is a personal favourite as it stops damage to some degree) and some form of condition spreading from my Ranger (Apply Poison assuming non-fleshy, there are others though), means I can C-Space my way through the game using overpowered strengths without the use of PvE skills even. Especially when I'm feeling lazy, I get an effective form of killing without putting much effort in.

Super Igor · Jul 04, 2009, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Yes because a warrior can use Gole, for example. And because gole reduces the cost of the shouts! And because gole wont increase the casting time of your chain.

No, you just have your mind set and never tried anything else.

Til you tried both you are just theoricrafting and coming with twisted ideal scenarios.

Wrong and wrong.

You were talking about assassin running AP caller, thats why I said /E or /P would be better.
I also have tried EVERYTHING thats the whole point. I ran my Discord without a caller entirely, something what you do, I ran my Discord with non-AP caller but AP caller setup was the strongest. Thats why I can say that the person who really havent tried anything else and stubbornly defending a position for the sake of it is you so do your research then come shit all over the forum with misleading statements.

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Not only does the present build works, and works for any physical character, but if you know what you are doing with a physical character, it is as fast if not faster the discordway with AP caller.

You got it all wrong, everything works in pve. You can beat pve with an empty skill bar.
If you want it to run effectively though, you should stop screwing your Discord over and run it like it should be.

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You just never tried and so you don't know. Your only answer is that "you don't know how to play discord", regardless of even knowing what is my killing speed.

I dont have to, but I have none the less. You should, because if you were good enough to theorycraft you wouldnt have made such stupid comments. You really dont know how to play Discord.

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I guess it is you that don't know how to play physical professions, since you are clearly convinced that, for example, an AP caller sin will do more damage than a MS/DB one.

Well in that case you dont know how to play the game after your 5000+ hours because max rank AP caller has higher burst damage than MS/DB, it obvious.
Even if you buff the shit out of your melee AP caller wins simply by the fact that melee has to get there first and that while your heroes are bosu casting hexes and buff around I wiped a mob.

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And that is why people start saying physical characters will have problems fulfilling the discord requisites, because the only things they know that can cause conditions and hexes are AP, YMLAD and Asuran Scan.

Not only that, but they are the fastest way. If you cant understand that I just pity you.

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More, you main critic to the build is that it doesn't have an AP caller, even though it doesn't need one, because basically you want a character that does what an AP caller does and play like. The characters that play like AP callers are AP callers.

It doesn't need one, but having one is so much better, entire forum told you that ffs.

Quote:

This is about playing different roles and still reap the rewards of discord in heroes (more because the AI sucks than because the intrinsic power of discord).

The fact youre saying that AI sucks alone means you should /uninstall, seriously.

Hero AI is arguebly one of the most imbalanced things Anet ever came up with, you just have to know what they can run which you unfortunately dont by the looks of it.
Really, no player has the same inhuman reaction they have when it comes to block, powerheals, interrupts. They can spread conditions, hexes and enchantments like death nova better than most players because they know exactly when they are going to end and target that needs them and you telling me the suck, LOL.

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But you have never tried and never will because it doesn't have an AP caller.

So your contributions to this are devoid of any importance because, 1) you aren't pointing short comes of the hero builds presented nor the player build; 2) you have no field experience of it, which is quite different from your ideal theoricrafting world, and 3) you only talk about the ASSASSIN AP CALLER, which is the best of the physical professions at being the caster and aren't capable of presenting a solution that works better for physical professions.

If Sabs worked better for a physical profession, you wouldn't run your assassin as an AP caller, now would you?

Whole reason I'm running an AP caller if because I tried everything else.

I actually doubt that you tried anything, youre just stuck to your shitty setup that doesnt even have a caller and is so weak it cant survive a second without SY! LOL

Improvavel · Jul 04, 2009, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

The fact youre saying that AI sucks alone means you should /uninstall, seriously.

Hero AI is arguebly one of the most imbalanced things Anet ever came up with, you just have to know what they can run which you unfortunately dont by the looks of it.

And they still are shit as melee. They will still remove blind from a caster. They will still remove cracked armor from a para. They will still use PS to heal someone. So?

Quote:

I actually doubt that you tried anything, youre just stuck to your shitty setup that doesnt even have a caller and is so weak it cant survive a second without SY! LOL

I play all the 10 professions. Took me 2 weeks to get an heavy bag by doing the zaishen PvE quests. I love to farm those easy missions like boreas seabed HM.

If your AP assassin caller is faster at killing then a moebius sin you are the one doing something wrong.

Playing an AP caller is far from being a rocket science!

Improvavel · Jul 04, 2009, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Sabway offers better support for a physical character, but as an Assassin why play Sabway when I can run an AP caller efficiently with my Assassin and blow stuff up even better? I don't need sustained damage in my spike build because I know how to operate my spike build in some of the most dire circumstances. I've cleared FoW, cleared the entire Southern Shiverpeaks and pretty much most of EotN on HM with Discordway and an AP caller.

So what? Ive legendary vanquisher, legendary master of the north and a few legendary guardians.

5000+ hours played, loads of DoA with heroway, blah di blah.

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You're just theorycrafting that an Assassin cant offer any support using his utility slots. You don't actually know this, and I can tell you have never played as an Assassin AP caller. Why don't you actually try it before even continuing this discussion.

I did. It isn't as efficient. Body blocking and SY, plus knocks are quite a good support.

While I don't play it with my Assassin I play with my necro. Which has better energy management and support than an assassin will ever have.

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I know this because I play an Assassin and often use skills in my utility slots to offer support to my team when needed. For the most part those skills aren't needed because stuff blows up way too quickly, but they're there anyway for when I do need them. Several secondary proffessions offer good energy management for an Assassin AP Caller, making an Assassin a good choice to use as an AP caller. You're also lacking taking +4 energy regeneration, high energy sets, and outside energy management, into account.

Still, if you are casting that support, and what support do you use btw?, who is casting the hexes and conditions?

Isn't your main pro for the caller the fact it casts the hexes and conditions, making it faster?

If you are casting the other support, unless they are hexes and conditions, you aren't priming for discord.

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The argument is pointless and is going nowhere because while you sit here and complain that people aren't listening to what you say, you're not really listening to what others say in your own blind faith that physicals can provide a ranged spike and support better than an AP caller can.

No. Physicals won't provide a ranged spike. They will add sustained damage. You wont need to spike from 100%->0% because they will be under 100% and so the discords will finish them between casting their other skills (or you can bind their discords and do clean spikes).

Additionally you chose to ignore the fact the physicals can also create the condition and hex really fast and do damage.

Quote:

The fact that you're judging your entire arguement on a PvXWiki build that is actually quite subpar compared to alot of good player versions throws your whole debate into dispute anyway. As I've told you before, the builds strength is it's versatility, if all you run is that PvX version and never change it or adapt it then you're a god aweful player.

As you can see I don't run a pvx build. So by curiosity what is the bare bones of your build?

And yes, playing a caller is easier than playing a melee.

Super Igor · Jul 04, 2009, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

And they still are shit as melee. They will still remove blind from a caster. They will still remove cracked armor from a para. They will still use PS to heal someone. So?

I told you, if you know what to run on them. If you give them what they can run they will play it better than any player.

Quote:

If your AP assassin caller is faster at killing then a moebius sin you are the one doing something wrong.

Playing an AP caller is far from being a rocket science!

If my Discord works like it should be I'm doing something wrong? lol wtf. AP caller + Discord kills the fastest, thats how it is, thats how it should be.

Your say playing AP call isn't rocket science yet you managed to fail at it so badly it couldnt kill fast enough......

upier · Jul 04, 2009, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

The fact youre saying that AI sucks alone means you should /uninstall, seriously.

Hero AI is arguably one of the most imbalanced things Anet ever came up with, you just have to know what they can run which you unfortunately dont by the looks of it.
Really, no player has the same inhuman reaction they have when it comes to block, powerheals, interrupts. They can spread conditions, hexes and enchantments like death nova better than most players because they know exactly when they are going to end and target that needs them and you telling me the suck, LOL.

To quote Yunior from The Brief Wondrous Life Of Oscar Wao: Negro, please.
(Completely off: read it if you can. Superb book.)

The AI sucks.
And the only reason why more players don't notice that is because we are abusing completely broken concepts to negate their failure.
I mean, there IS a reason why necros dominate the hero battlefield in PvE.

Improvavel · Jul 04, 2009, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

I told you, if you know what to run on them. If you give them what they can run they will play it better than any player.

If my Discord works like it should be I'm doing something wrong? lol wtf. AP caller + Discord kills the fastest, thats how it is, thats how it should be.

Your say playing AP call isn't rocket science yet you managed to fail at it so badly it couldnt kill fast enough......

Hehehe.

So someone is able to kill faster with a moebius sin. Your conclusion is that they need to be bad with the AP caller which is go there YMLAD, EVAS, HEX or AP, FH and AP (if you haven't cast it yet)!

It is really easy to be bad at that!

I think I understand why you love the AP caller - it is easy! Guess it makes you feel warmer inside if you believe it is the fastest thing on earth! If it isn't than you would have to run an Assassin at melee range, and OMG, they are squishy and easy to shutdown!

Super Igor · Jul 04, 2009, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Hehehe.

So someone is able to kill faster with a moebius sin. Your conclusion is that they need to be bad with the AP caller which is go there YMLAD, EVAS, HEX or AP, FH and AP (if you haven't cast it yet)!

It is really easy to be bad at that!

I think I understand why you love the AP caller - it is easy! Guess it makes you feel warmer inside if you believe it is the fastest thing on earth! If it isn't than you would have to run an Assassin at melee range, and OMG, they are squishy and easy to shutdown!

More like someone cant run an AP caller with his Discord and see why it makes things so much better but argues against anyway. lol, maybe the quests for unlocking the pve skills requred are too hard for you.....

Everything else you said doesnt make sense.

Everyone in this thread confirms that AP caller is faster, it's actually pretty obvious and you say you can go faster with some magical crap of yours that doesn't even have any kind of caller...

Fine then, post your build, tell us your secret! LOL Because so far it sounds like you stubbornly defend your ms/db because you cant run anything else.

Also, if you believe that sins are squishy you suck, nothing is squishy in pve you simply cant die. I run AP caller because it makes my Discord setup perform so much better and faster, fast primer and high dmg spike, utility, range all increase your killing speed.

EDIT:

Saw your setup and I must say. It's terrible and you never ran an AP caller.

Just by looking at your setup, you use SoLS, that means your heoes run out of energy that means that you arent killing fast enough because I run almost identical one for MM and resto and never have any energy problems anywhere because things get blown away very fast.

Improvavel · Jul 04, 2009, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

EDIT:

Saw your setup and I must say. It's terrible and you never ran an AP caller.

Just by looking at your setup, you use SoLS, that means your heoes run out of energy that means that you arent killing fast enough because I run almost identical one for MM and resto and never have any energy problems anywhere because things get blown away very fast.

Yeah I just have legendary guardian with my necro and he uses AP.

SoLS are there more of a tradition. I take them out if I need the slot. Still useful though.

Hardly horrible because of that.

Nope you just cant run physical professions.

And everyone confirming stuff doesn't make it true. We had good players swearing against the power of the ER healer.

Someone stating that an assassin AP caller will deal more damage than a Moebius or Scythe sin isn't exactly a great recommendation.

Tenebrae · Jul 04, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

More like someone cant run an AP caller with his Discord and see why it makes things so much better but argues against anyway. lol, maybe the quests for unlocking the pve skills requred are too hard for you.....

Good try , but you didnt flame good enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Everything else you said doesnt make sense.

Says the guy that believes AP Caller and Discord is Hard to use and setup ... yea thats the reason ppl use it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Everyone in this thread confirms that AP caller is faster, it's actually pretty obvious and you say you can go faster with some magical crap of yours that doesn't even have any kind of caller...

No matter what he or anyone says or proofs because you are gonna always go with :
1- You are lying and X is not so effective
2- If you are doing with X more damage your Discordway setup must be terrible ( or something like that ).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Fine then, post your build, tell us your secret! LOL Because so far it sounds like you stubbornly defend your ms/db because you cant run anything else.

Woah, go ahead and tell us yours ! oh wait .... LoL any1 knows Discordway here is unskilled and with an AP caller is just button smashing but you still claim it to be HARD to play and have SOME magical secret that makes yours go faster , kill faster and do 2X damage than anyone else´s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Also, if you believe that sins are squishy you suck, nothing is squishy in pve you simply cant die.

Well not all Sins come from Kripton like yours dude but maybe the ENTIRE WORLD and wiki is wrong when they say that they are one of the most squishy chars ( melee , low armor , and brutal agro because its a DDealer )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

I run AP caller because it makes my Discord setup perform so much better and faster, fast primer and high dmg spike, utility, range all increase your killing speed.

Like anyone else dude ..... like anyone else. And i will tell you the other reasons :
-Needs almost 0 skill
-Needs almost 0 adaptation
-Differs almost 0 from one prof to another.

Now make up something you believe we dont "know" about that build and its usage for god sake.

AtomicMew · Jul 04, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Hopefully all the people that are arguing for the insane speed of Disco kills are all microing Disco, right?
You do know that without doing that a lot of the things said here are just a nice theory?

No it is not, and that pretty much just shows YOUR own fail. On my necro, I cast the full chain all the time (AP YMLAD, EVAS, FH!). When I tried micro, I am usually not able to cast the full chain before the target dies.

Now math: 300 damage (micro'ed) + 250 (shouts) + hench dmg, random AoE/degen etc. is already enough damage to kill most things. In other words, I wouldn't even be able to cast EVAS.

This is not theorycraft, but logic to back up experience. In other words, if you have trouble killing without micro-ing, YOU fail not discordway.

Quote:

Someone stating that an assassin AP caller will deal more damage than a Moebius or Scythe sin isn't exactly a great recommendation.

Except it does.

I've given MS/DB all considerations and benefits of the doubt. Not even taking into consideration the fact that it is melee, MS/DB takes 1.75 seconds to pull of asura scan + 1st hit. That's ~100 damage and a hex. AP caller takes 1.5 seconds to pull of ~150 damage (250 incl. DW) as well as knockdown. When you take into consideration the fact that melee has to run from target to target on the order of ~1 second, there is just no contest.

Besides, if MS/DB is as good as you say it is, your target shouldn't even be lasting long enough to rotate MS/DB. Doesn't that make the entire build, moot?

I have yet to see any attempt to prove MS/DB does more damage. It is not enough to say "lol rotating MS/DB on MoD gives 200 DPS". Formally speaking, you need to account for the fact that MS/DB is melee, the fact that it's easier to shutdown, the fact that it doesn't knocklock (unlike AP caller), the fact that your target should be dead before you even get to rotate MS/DB, the fact that you need to divert attributes/skill slot on heroes to buff up MS/DB to anything reasonable.

Even taking ALL of that OUT of account, I've already shown as per above that an AP caller can output more DPS than MS/DB. Sorry, you cannot just ignore solid math and reasoning and expect to have a valid argument.

Any valid reply will take into account ALL the downsides I've listed above in attempting to prove the superiority of MS/DB.